Random Thought

Come to Christ Jesus as you are, and He will change you from what you are.

Scripture Meditation

Job 1:5 (KJV)  And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually.

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Christians vs Politics

As christians, our political positions, contrary to popular belief, actually spreads across the entire political spectrum.

There are numerous political issues where a christian is commanded by Jesus to hold to that would cause us to be counted amongst those on the left, those on the right, those in the centre, those who call themselves liberal, conservative, socialist, democrat, republican, tory, labour, etc.

And because we are commanded to hold to these political points, to not do so, is to go against the one we claim to be God.

In the christian world, that would be a sin... or in some circles, a stronger term would be... rebellion.

Due to the lack of Christ-mindedness within the Christian's of today, we unknowingly find ourselves in rebellion to the kingdom of God when it comes to politics.

Let us, as ambassadors of Christ, re-focus our minds on the commands of our God, so that our influence in the world, as well as our service to the world, reflects the plans that God has laid out for us to follow.

As it's written, 'His thoughts are not our thoughts, and His ways are not our ways'.

Maranatha

Double Predestination

Recently, I have come across a number of discussions dealing with the doctrine known as "Double Predestination".

With predestination in its name, it's obviously a doctrine that proceeds from the general doctrine known as "Predestination".

As a reminder, the doctrine known as "Predestination" states that God is the one who determines who will be saved. He determines, before-hand, all those whom He will save for Himself. 

This means that the determiner of salvation is not man. Man doesn't choose Jesus, and his salvific journey doesn't begin at the point of making that decision, but rather, the salvific journey begins when God chooses... if He indeed chooses for it to be so.

This group of people are referred to as "the elect", according to the scriptures.

The doctrine of "Predestination" is often debated and attacked by various people as it outright goes against the popular ideas in relation to the nature of the will of man, his role in being born again, and... more importantly... the role God plays in all of this.

One would think that such a doctrine couldn't become even more "unlikeable", but it does, by introducing the idea of "Double Predestination".

A lot of people who claim to be believers, for some odd reason, really have a problem with God being the one who decides who goes to heaven, as per the general doctrine of predestination.

Well, "Double Predestination" states that not only does God choose who will go to heaven, He also chooses who will go to hell.

God determines before-hand, who will go to hell as well.

The main people who hold to both doctrines are obviously calvinists and those who are reformed.

Others may hold to one and not the other, or variations on one or both positions.

So it's not unusual to see vitriol being flung around in regards to not only these doctrines, but other doctrines held by calvinists, and calvinism in general.

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Just like general predestination, and other biblical doctrines that calvinists elevate, there are numerous "go to" passages that are cited as proof texts.

One famous excerpt is found in Romans 9, and can be summed up in the following verse.

Romans 9:21 (ESV)

Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?

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When it comes to "Double Predestination", there seems to generally be three camps.

The first camp states that God is passive in His predetermination.

This means that God chooses whom He will save, and "passes over" those whom He will not save.

So God isn't doing anything to make these people go to hell. They are doing it themselves, and God simply chooses not to save them from themselves.

I believe that many people who hold to the doctrine of predestination, fall in this camp.

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The second camp states that God is active in His predetermination.

This obviously means that God makes it so that people will go to hell as per His predetermination.

There are a lot fewer people in this camp, as the very thought of it rubs people the wrong way.

However, those in this camp are not devoid of scriptures to grab in order to support their view.

One such scripture, which is also found in Romans 9, is the following...

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Romans 9:17 (ESV)

For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth."

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If you go to the book of Exodus and read the historical account of what took place, God declares to Moses that He would harden Pharaoh's heart so as to not let the Israelites go.

God says that He is active in Pharaoh hardening his heart in disobedience to the command of God through Moses.

And the reason that God gives? So that He would glorify Himself.

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The third camp states that it's a bit of both.

While I'm not sure, I assume there is even less people in the third camp than the second camp.

I fall in the third camp.

The reason that I disagree with the first two camps is that they both take an all or nothing view on this issue.

Either God is always passive or He's always active.

But the scriptures doesn't give us a clear indication of either position for us to be dogmatic about it.

We clearly see where God is definitely active in certain instances. This is even highlighted in Jesus' earthly ministry more than once.

However, there is nothing that says that God behaves in this active way all the time.

Just like in the case where John the Baptist was born again in his mother's womb. We can determine that God can do this, and has no problem doing it, but there is nothing to show that this is normative in any way.

It is not normative for God to take on human form and walk the earth. 

We know that He has done it a number of times before the incarnation, but He wasn't doing it all the time.

So it is with this. When we look at the totality of scripture, we know that there are times when God does actively intervene, but it doesn't seem to be a constant thing that He does.

If He does do it, it's because He specifically is causing a certain thing to play out how He wants it to play out.

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Now, when discussing this topic, you will find that A LOT of people want to bring the topic into the will of man, and the deciding factor of salvation, and the warnings of scripture, etc., etc.

While those aren't necessarily invalid points, and aren't necessarily topics that shouldn't be examined in relation to what this doctrine proposes, I believe that many times we are too busy examining the speck under the microscope while ignoring the plank in our eyes.

I don't know if I see things this way due to how I became aware of calvinism and the doctrines of grace, but I see a great number of doctrine, that we are all too happy to debate, pick up, and put down, as if they are small things, when in reality, we are literally in danger of making false gods according to our own mind.

We are so quick to pit scripture against scripture, without any thought of reconciling the two, as if they are contradictory positions from two competing religions.

The easiest way to understand whether this is true or not, is to refer to what God says. Once God has spoken, any one who says differently is a liar.

Even if we think that the Apostle Paul or Apostle Peter is saying something different, it doesn't matter. If God has spoken clearly on the matter, then either those apostles must be wrong, or we're misunderstanding what they have said, because God can never be wrong, else He is not God, and christianity is false - making the entire discussion moot.

So, when I go into discussions about this, especially if it's a discussion with someone who disagrees with me, before we discuss anything about salvation, the will of man, the will of God, election, etc. - I do a quick check to see if we are actually seeking to meditate and delve deep into the words of God in order to gain understanding, or if the person is all about arguing and pushing their agenda/dogma.

I can't tell you how many "discussions" start and end with this quick check that I do, but it has shown me that there are many who are not about being corrected by scripture, or being shown that they are wrong in any thing. They are right, and there is nothing you can do to prove they are not right. Even if they go against what God has revealed about Himself... they are still right.

This is the same line of reasoning that I use in my skeleton argument.

The quick check goes like this...

Q. Is God all-powerful?

A. Yes

Q. Is God all-knowing?

A. Yes

Q. So God knows everything before it happens, and can do anything (according to His nature)?

A. Yes

Q. Before God creates someone, does He know whether they will be in hell or heaven?

The answer to this question should be a yes. If you affirm the first two points of doctrine, and affirm the clarification, then this question should also be affirmed.

Q. If God knows that when He creates person x, then that person will go to hell when all is said and done, can God simply not create them?

Again, the answer to this question should be a yes, for the same reasons as above.

Notice that these questions do not go into whether God chooses or not, how God chooses, the will of man, or any of those things.

It specifically focuses on two indisputable claims about the very nature of God, that God Himself... declares about Himself... as attributes that make Him God... that no other entity has.

In the most basic sense, Predestination and Double Predestination MUST be true, else God is not actually God.

To deny either positions is to create a different god, and not the one revealed in the scriptures.

God could not be all-knowing... meaning that He creates people and does not know whether or not they will be in heaven or hell before He creates them - so predetermination could never be a thing (for whatever reason you want to use).

OR

God could not be all-powerful... meaning that He knows whether or not the people He create will be in heaven or hell before He creates them - but He doesn't have the power to NOT create them. This is obviously problematic because if He doesn't have the power to NOT create them, hence preventing people from going to hell, how could we be sure He has the power to save people who are already in existence who are literally on their way to hell?

Wouldn't it necessitate more power to act upon a thing, than it is to not act upon a thing?

OR

God is neither all-knowing or all-powerful.

But again, this is clearly not what the scriptures state... out of God's own mouth no-less.

When I use that line of reasoning, usually the other party completely shuts down the conversation and goes into a tirade of ad hominems and "you calvinists believe x", "doctrines of demons", etc. etc.   

For such a being as the God of the bible, predestination and double predestination, are natural results of His very nature.

We don't need to understand the hows and the whys. There is no amount of whatifs that could change the fact that the God of the bible describes Himself as OMNIPOTENT and OMNISCIENT.

For those to be true, certain things that are directly connected to those attributes must also be true. And if those things that are connected to the attributes are said to be false, then those attributes must also be false as well.

If you can't get past this line of questioning, you are dealing with something much bigger than false doctrine. You're dealing with a false god. An idol has been erected in the mind and heart of said person.

Don't exchange the simplicity of the truths of scripture, for complicated and heady doctrine because it comes from theologians. Satan is also a theologian and his theology is more on point than any human on the face of the earth.

I hope this helps you as you continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling.

Maranatha

Y.A.C. Ep 8 - Blog

Gab Thoughts

A true test for a professing believer, is to be confronted with the clear words of Christ when it contradicts their position/belief, and to see if they will submit to the one they call Lord 

https://gab.com/UrAvrgChristian/posts/106126194310097911

Y.A.C. Ep 7 - Blog

Are you an Arminian or a Calvinist? Is there a happy middle?