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Deuteronomy 10:17
For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:

Faith Workout (part 3)

Awhile ago, I had a the opportunity to spend some time talking abouy the things of God with a brother in Christ.

I thoroughly enjoyed the conversation which seemed, for the most part, to be focused on what is called "Reformed Theology" or the "Doctrines of Grace".

It's usually summed up using the acronym T.U.L.I.P.

T=Total Depravated. Every part of man has been touched by sin so that nothing he does is good.

U=Unconditional Election. The only way someone can be saved from the wrath of God for being evil, is for Him to grant it to you. And since we are evil, this salvation is not based on anything we have done. It's completely undeserved and an act of grace and mercy.

L=Limited Atonement. God actively chooses who He will and will not save.

I=Irresistable Grace. All those who God had chosen to be saved, will be saved as He will draw them to Himself.

P=Perseverance of the Saints. Everyone who God saves will stay saved.

Although many people disagree with these doctrines, they are clearly taught by Jesus Himself, and the apostles. They are also taught by God and the prophets in the Old Testament.

Since this is the case, someone who takes the word of God seriously must be obedient and believe them.

However, these doctrines clearly go against our fleshly mentality, and so leaders teach their followers the opposite of what the bible plainly says.

This causes many people mis-represent the doctrines of grace as "easy believism" or giving people a "license to sin".

It also causes people to automatically put up a "mental wall" when they hear the doctrines as they've been taught that they're not biblical.

So even when Jesus clearly says these things, their firsr inclination is not to consider and believe but to try and discredit Jesus, while at the same time not discrediting Him, by trying to put other verses of scripture, out of context, against Him.

So many people are against the doctrines out of ignorance and mis-information.

In the last two posts, I talked about some topics that came about during the discussion I had.

Another topic that came up was the idea of man's free will.

This is also taught in a different way. That God is a gentleman who would never force you, but puts life and death in front of you and asks you to choose.

This idea is used to go against every element of the t.u.l.i.p. acronym.

What it does, without many people not realising, is to set man above God. God can't do anything without your input.

Now, the free will argument is always initially used to attack limited atonement.

It's not that the people believe in universalism, the idea that God will save everyone at some point, but they believe that the reason people go to hell is because they choose to.

In a sense they are correct. The people who go to hell do choose to. They don't want God at all, and would rather choose hell if they actually had a choice.

But there's the rub. The reason they go to hell is initially because God doesn't choose them to be saved.

This is the logical conclusion from Jesus' words.

One of those passages that I like using so often...

John 6:36-40
But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
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According to Jesus' words, everybody who the Father gives Him, will believe. He won't lose any of them either.

Notice that they are given to Christ before they come to Him.

Since this is the case, what is the reason that Jesus gives for people not "choosing" Him and ending up in hell?

They were not part of the ones that the Father gave to Jesus.

This isn't the only time that the Lord tells us what's going on behind the scenes regarding those who "make a decision" for Him.

But there should be no need to go to anymore as it takes one wrong declaration for Jesus to not be God.

Another aspect of the "free will" argument is that it denies that man is totally depraved.

In other words, man has some kind of innate goodness left that enables us to choose Christ when the opportunity presents itself.

As stated in a previous post, we are told exactly where we stand with God outside of Christ.

Romans 3:9-18
What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: Their feet are swift to shed blood: Destruction and misery are in their ways: And the way of peace have they not known: There is no fear of God before their eyes.
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Paul tells us clearly that outside of Christ we don't care about God at all.

We want absolutely nothing to do with Him. And if we happen to want a god, we will either make ourselves god, or make for ourselves a god.

None of us does good.

Paul even says this about himself too.

Romans 7:17-18
Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
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Is that not what Christ tells us?

Luke 11:13
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
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You see, outside of Christ, God calls us evil.

What about the good that we do?

Isaiah 64:6
But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
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With such a mountain of evidence against us, how can we claim we have any goodness in us?

So, because of the above, some people believe that what happens is that God gives people the ability to choose.

In other words, it's not an internal goodness but an external goodness. If i remember correctly, it is called Prevenient Grace. God gives all man this grace in order for them to make the decision themselves.

Of course, for this to be true, Jesus would have to be wrong about the Father giving a certain amount of people to Him, and that being the reason they believe.
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So far we've seen the “free will“ argument go against Limited Atonement by God's choice, and Total Depravity.

It also argues against Unconditional Election. This is not to say that the people who believe in man's free will to choose God won't verbally affirm that man doesn't deserve salvation and that it's all by God's grace and mercy.

They will affirm this in word but deny it in action.

You see, if man has free will regarding salvation, then its not based on grace at all, but His decision. It's man that saves himself.

Salvation becomes a rope that man must make the decision to grab.

However, from what Paul and Jesus tells us, man is not able to do that.

Remember, no one does good. no one seeks for God. We are dead in sins and unable to grab the rope.

We must first be made alive (born again), and then we will seek God and do good. In other words Jesus lassos your dead corpse with the rope and in doing so brings you to life. You then grab the rope because your eyes are now open to see that He's drawing you to Himself.

Because the argument attacks unconditional election, it also attacks Perseverance of the Saints. After all, if by your decision you can grab hold of salvation, then it makes sense that by that same decision, you can let go of salvation.

And so, out of everyone that is saved, not all of them will be in heaven as some will choose to let go.

Again, a complete contradiction of what Jesus clearly tells us about not losing anything that the Father gives Him.
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Lastly, the free will argument also attacks Irresistable Grace. The reasoning is the same as above. Man can, by our own will, push back the drawing of God and cause those who God intends to save to not be saved.

In other words, man is stronger than God.
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Seeing as how the bible trounces the free will argument, the next question is usually, “so does man have free will?“

And the answer is yes.... and no.

The bible teaches us that we are free to choose what is consistent with our nature.

For example, outside if Christ, we are dead in our sins. We can't do good or please God. We are slaves to sin which dominates us.

Our nature doesn't provide us with the choice to please God. When given the option, we will always reject Him. Even if it's an inward rejection while outwardly we seem to be doing things that please Him.

We don't have the choice to reject sin altogether. Instead, we'll reject one sin for another.

This is the picture that the bible paints.

But this is not only restricted to unbelievers and sin. When it comes to the direct revealed will of God, even believers can't thwart it.

The bible gives us plenty of examples other than salvation.

There is the direct teaching given by the apostle paul in Romans 9. The story of jonah, esther, joseph. Noah and the door of the ark.

In other words, overwhelmingly, we are taught that God's will, will come to pass.

We have no option that we can choose that would cause God's will to be stopped.

Even our prayers are only granted once it is subjected to the inspection by the will of God.

So then, how do we have free will?

Well, the christian has the choice to walk in the spirit or the flesh. We are told constantly to take off the old man and put on Christ. We have the ability to say no to sin and choose righteousness.

Now we are not making these decisions completely independent of God. We are told that the Holy Spirit helps us make these decisions and that He is sanctifying us. And because of the new heart we have been given, we actually want to walk in the spirit.

Not only that, but we can be obedient and do good. We can reject sin outright. We can repent.

Those who aren't made alive by the Spirit of God are not able to do these things.
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Well, that's all i have for you. I can't remember any more of the discussion.

I encourage you to open your bibles and search the scriptures regarding the doctrines of grace.

Christ is indeed the author and finisher of our faith.

Amen