Once Saved, Always Saved? (part 8)

Welcome back to the series on the doctrine of Eternal Security, also known as Once Saved, Always Saved (OSAS), or as I like to put it... if God saves you, He will keep you saved.

Today, we'll be looking at two questions sent by 1 of the 3 people who reads this blog :)



Question 1: I believe that salvation is a process. Although we can't lose a process, can't we remove ourselves from this process and eventually find ourselvew in a place where we are so hardened to the promptings of the Holy Spirit to repentance that we would either be given over to that which we want, or would find it impossible to come to a place of repentance?

Before we can answer the question, we must first have an understanding of the "process" of salvation.
The bible seems to indicate that the entirety of salvation can be summarised like this - We have been saved (Jesus paid the penalty for all of our sins, and gives us His eternal life), are being saved (this is the sanctification that the Holy Spirit works in us), and will be saved (this is when we finally are rid of the sinful flesh).

According to Jesus, those who He saves (part 1), will be saved (part 3).

So, the process of salvation we're talking about is the middle part, sanctification.

Now, the bible does seem to indicate that we are able to halt the process of sanctification... at least temporarily.

For example, we are told to put on Christ and not to walk according to the flesh but be led by the Spirit.

So we can interrupt the process by our disobedience.

Another thing we need to look at is the notion that God would give us over to our desires that are contrary to His will.

This is true. God can and does do this.

However, we must remember, God doesn't do it to us in the same way that He does it to those who are not saved.

When He does it to us, it's in order to teach us or discipline us.

Which brings us to the next point. Because the Holy Spirit dwells in us, we would never get to the point where we are so hardened towards Him so as not to be able to repent any longer.

This is because there are two things that happens to us when God saves us.

The first is found in the old testament.

Ezekiel 36:26-29, 31
A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God. I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you.
Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.

In context, this is God speaking to the children of Israel, but this is exactly what happens to us when God saves us.

We are given a new heart, and a new spirit, along with the Holy Spirit. Our new man desires to do the things of God, while our old man desires to do the things contrary to God.

It's because of this why there is a constant battle within ourselves.

But, this is the reason why we can't be hardened to the point where we can't/won't repent.

The second thing is that the Holy Spirit does more than just convict or prompt us. A lot of times we look at the Holy Spirit as only kind of nudging us in the right direction. But the bible shows that the Holy Spirit does do more than that.

We must bring to remembrance that the bible says that God will chasten and discipline us.

Hebrews 12:5-11
And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

All throughout the bible we see God dealing chastening and disciplining His people. He doesn't just nudge, but brings physical punishment and hardship to His people. He uses the rod of correction in order to bring about His good will in our lives.

We must remember that God has adopted us into His family. We are now sons and daughters of the Most High God. He is our Father. He signed our adoption papers in blood. Christ Jesus is our brother.

It's because of this familial relationship that God brings discipline to us. He doesn't gently poke us in the direction He wants us to go. He tells us with authority what He wants us to do. Just like our earthly father's, He'll give us instructions to do things, and expect us to do it our of love and respect for Him. If we don't do what He tells us to do, He will sort us out.

It's like a father telling his child to clean his room. The child constantly drags his feet and refuses to do so. The father won't immediately bring discipline to the child, but after awhile, the threat of discipline will be made, 'if I have to come in there...'

Have you read the letters to the churches in the book of Revelation? Did you see what Jesus repeatedly said to the churches?

Who was it that discipline Ananias and Saphira? Was it not the Holy Spirit. What happened to the other children who say God discipline them? The Holy fear of God came on them.

Ananias and Saphira is the perfect example of this. They both decided to go against the will of God by lying. This caused their sanctification to be stopped at that point, because the disciplining was their mortal death.

We must remember, this corruptible flesh is not our final state. So God can and will, at times bring discipline by killing us.

When Balaam decided to go against the revealed will of God, God sought to kill him.

When Moses decided not to circumcise his children, going against the revealed will of God, God sought to kill him.

Multiple times, when the children of Israel decided to go against the revealed will of God, God killed them.

You see, the discipline is also for others to see, and by doing so, learn not to make the same mistakes else there would be consequences.

Another thing we must remember is that, for those who go against God's will, Jesus still calls them His sheep... and remember... He is the good shepherd.

And just like a good shepherd, He tells us that if one sheep strays, that He will leave the 99 sheep, and go after the one and bring it back. He then tells us that it's not the will of God that even one of the sheep would perish.

So, is it possible for someone who is saved, to remove themselves from the process of sanctification? It does seem like it. Will God just sit there and allow His sheep to continue to walk away from the direction He wants them to go? Most definitely not.

So we can be secure in the knowledge that God won't allow us to stray too far for too long. He will bring discipline to us. And if He decides to take us from this mortal plane for the time being, He will do so, and use it as a lesson to the other sheep.

Psalm 23:1-4
A Psalm of David. The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want. He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters. He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake. Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me. 

We should take comfort in the fact that because Jesus is the good shepherd, that He will use His rod to correct us when we're disobedient, and His staff to direct us in the way we should go.

Fun Fact: Shepherds who have sheep that stray a lot, one they find them, break the legs of the sheep and carries the sheep around their neck. As they nurse the sheep back to health, tending to their broken legs, the sheep forms a bond with the shepherd so that once its legs are mended, it no longer strays.

Question 2: If we can't lose our salvation, what does 1 Timothy 4:1 mean? Someone can't depart from a faith that they were not actually a part of. In other words, these people Paul speaks of had a faith, and then for the various reasons he outlines turn away from said faith because of demonically inspired false doctrine.

1 Timothy 4:1
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

This is a good verse for us to look at. Taken alone, we would easily come to the conclusion that it is definitely talking about people who are saved. But when we take Jesus' words into consideration, we realise that it couldn't be talking about those who are saved.

The first thing we must do when engaging these verses that, for all intents and purposes does seem to say that believers can lose their salvation, is to remember what God has already said.

Again, once we stand on the firm foundation of the rock, and then look at these verses, things start to become clear to us.

So, we must remember that Jesus said that He won't lose any of His sheep. They will never perish. He also says that the Holy Spirit will be with us forever.

Now, let's examine this verse.

Here, we have Paul writing a letter to Timothy, giving him advice regarding the issues within the Ephesian church.

Paul says that it's the Holy Spirit who is saying this is going to happen in the last days.

Now remember, for someone to no longer have their salvation, depart from the faith, the Holy Spirit would have to leave them - so Jesus would be wrong in the Holy Spirit being with us forever.

The Holy Spirit would also be contradicting Himself because Paul tells us under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit that we are sealed unto the day of redemption.

But we know that God doesn't contradict Himself.

So, who is the Spirit talking about when He says they will depart from the faith?

Well, how do we know when someone is in the faith? Jesus actually tells us that a lot of times we don't know (parable of the wheat and tares, the 10 virgins, the 4 soils, etc.)

We tend to say that those who are in the faith are those who confess and look like they are saved - but these are outward signs, not inward signs. Again, remember the 4 soils.

How do we know when someone has departed from the faith?

It's the same thing, we look at outward signs.

Alright, so with Jesus' words as our foundation, we can clearly see that the people being spoken of here are those who once professed Christ, but have now departed from that profession of faith.

Outwardly, for all intents and purposes, it looks like they've departed from the faith. But, according to Jesus, they were never saved to begin with, because He won't lose any of His sheep.

Furthermore, look at what's going on - they have been seduced by spirits and doctrines of devils. That's an indication of their spiritual state.

When we continue into the next verses, we start to see how these people will be able to be identified.

1 Timothy 4:2-3
Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. 

These are the fruits that we will know them by... they will be forbidding marriage, telling people that they can only eat certain food, speaking lies in hypocrisy, going against their consciences.

Do you see a problem here? These people don't sound like an atheists. Forbidding marriage? Eating certain foods? That sounds like a religious person.

This is a person who is practicing a false religion.

So these people are those who once professed to have a relationship with the God of the bible, and then turn around and show that the person they worship is not the God of the bible at all.

Another thing to pay attention to is that this is a pastoral epistle. Paul has just finished writing about what a bishop and deacon (church elders) look like.

These people are commanding people not to marry and what to eat. These are people who are leaders. These are people who have followers.

There is one more thing that we must consider. The fact that this is happening was actually foretold by Paul.

Acts 20:17-31
And from Miletus he sent to Ephesus, and called the elders of the church.

And when they were come to him, he said unto them, 'Ye know, from the first day that I came into Asia, after what manner I have been with you at all seasons, Serving the Lord with all humility of mind, and with many tears, and temptations, which befell me by the lying in wait of the Jews: And how I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you, but have shewed you, and have taught you publickly, and from house to house, Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

And now, behold, I go bound in the spirit unto Jerusalem, not knowing the things that shall befall me there: Save that the Holy Ghost witnesseth in every city, saying that bonds and afflictions abide me.

But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.

And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more. Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men. For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.

Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears'.

Look at what Paul tells the elders of the Ephesian church. Wolves will come into the church, and not spare the flock.

How will they allow wolves to come into the church? Because they aren't able to distinguish between those who are saved from those who aren't.

Not only that, Paul tells them that people will rise up among them, and draw people away.

So, not only will wolves enter in, but there are some that are already there, and will start drawing people away.

This is exactly what is happening in 1 Timothy 4.

So again, this verse is talking about those who once professed to be following Christ, and no longer hold to that profession. So it looks as though they have departed from the faith. When in actuality, they were never following Christ to begin with.

In this instance, we had the prophetic testimony of Paul in Acts 20, but even if that wasn't recorded, the words of the Lord is sufficient. He will not lose any of His sheep, and none of them will perish.

Can you see the stark difference when you stand on the sure word of God and let His words illuminate the scripture?

It's the words of the Lord that enables us to understand scripture. But if we don't seek the word of the Lord first, we're liable to come to all sorts of wrong conclusions.

Join us next time as we continue looking into various verses that people believe show that we can lose our salvation.