Faith Workout

The other day, I met up with a brother in Christ that i've known for awhile.

We spent about 3 hours talking about the things of God.

I thoroughly enjoyed myself.

The majority of the time seemed to be spent discussing certain aspects of, what is often called, reformed theology.

This is also known as the doctrines of grace.

It is usually summed up using the acronym, T.U.L.I.P.

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The T stands for total depravity. Every part of man is touched by sin. Although we aren't as bad as we can be, this causes us to be completely dead in our sins. Even our good deeds are seen as sinful to God.

We are completely and utterly doomed, and have no ability to save ourselves.

The U stands for unconditional election.

Scripture declares that there is nothing we can do to earn salvation. It also declares that there is nothing in us that causes God to save us. No inherent goodness or beauty. So the choice to save is completely up to God.

The L stands for limited atonement. God does not save everyone, but some. He chooses who He will show grace and mercy, and to whom He will judge.

The I stands for irresistable grace. This is not to say that one can't resist God or make attempts to do so, but that those who He has chosen, elected, to be saved, will be saved. His will, will be done.

The P stands for perseverance of the saints. That is to say that all those who God saves, given eternal life, He will keep saved. They will persevere until the end.

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These doctrines are clearly taught in the bible and are directly spoken by Jesus Himself.

Those who disagree with these either don't understand them, and therefore don't understand what they are saying, or... they fully understand what they are saying and don't care that they no longer hold to the core tenets of the faith.

In other words, they aren't christians and don't care.

Most, I would say, are in the former camp. It's this position that I took when I was discussing these things with my brother. He was unaware of the position he was taking, as he didn't fully understand the implications of his stance.

So, I thought I would run through some of the ideas and objections he brought.

One of the things we talked about was whether or not Jesus died for the sins of the world... as in literally everybody in the world.

In his mind, by doing this, Jesus is making salvation available, not actually saving anybody.

There are two problems with this.

The first is that if Jesus actually paid for the sins of the entire world, then no one should go to hell.

We know this to be the case because the cross is where our sins have been paid for.

Colossians 2:13-14
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

The punishmemt for our sins were poured out on Christ at the cross.

Our sins were paid for back then. If this was indeed for everybody in the world, then there are no sins for those in hell to be punished for.

This would make God unjust as He is punishing someone for sins that have already been paid for.

This would also reduce the value of the sacrifice as it would mean that the blood can't cleanse our sins. Something else needs to be done/added in order for the sins to be forgiven.

This, obviously is not what scripture shows.

The second problem is that the bible doesn't say that the crucifixion made salvation possible, but that it actually saves.

Let's look at some scriptures.

John 1:29
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Here, we are told that Jesus will actually take away the sins of the world. Not just make it possible, but will actually do it.

But, we know that not everyone will be saved. So how can john the baptist be correct?

Well, this isn't to be taken in the sense that Jesus would take away the sins of everybody in the entire world.

How do we know that? If this isn't the case, then Jesus has failed. Not only that but God has lied. As it was God that told John that Jesus would do this.

So in what sense does Jesus mean the world?

There are either two options. The first one is that He meant it as in a large amount of specific people. So the term "world" can mean the entire group of people that is in mind.

The book of Revelation tells us that the amount of people who will be saved id innumerable.

We also get an example of this usage.

Luke 2:1
And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed.

Did caesar literally tax the entire world? No.

The other option, which is what makes more sense, is that the term world means both jew and gentile.

Jew and gentile comprises the world. Jesus takes away the sins of both jew and gentile.

With that settled, there are other scriptures to look at.

John 3:16-17
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Here we have Jesus saying that He was sent so that the world might be saved.

Again, we know that there will be people in hell. Doesn't that mean that Jesus failed?

If He was sent to save everybody, and didn't, that means He failed.

Although it wouldn't be a problem if He was simply a man, but He is supposed to be God in the flesh.

He is supposed to be the same God that turns the hearts of kings like a river however He sees fit.

He is supposed to be the same God that always brings to pass the things that He has declared.

So, to say that Jesus died for the sins of the world, meaning everybody in the world, and some people go to hell, ultimately means that Jesus is not God.

Since this is the conclusion, this is why people say that He came to make salvation possible, not to actually save people.

In this way, Jesus isn't failing as salvation isn't based on His work but on the work of man.

However, this is clearly not what scripture teaches. There is nothing man can do to earn or deserve salvation. If salvation is up to man to choose, then there is something they can/must do in order to obtain it. And without them doing it they won't be saved.

They bible calls that works.

What is interesting is that Jesus seems to make the proper understanding quite clear. That, in His taking away the sins of the world, that He is not talking about literally everyone in the world.

John 12:47-48
And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Here we see that even though there are those who don't believe, them not believing doesn't nullify Christ's saving of the world.

Now, someone might use those previous verses to say, 'see, it doesn't nullify Christ's saving of the world because He saves by making salvation available, and we have to commit to Him', but here's what Jesus also said...

John 17:9
I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

Jesus says He isn't praying for the world, but only those that the Father has given Him.

For someone making salvation available to the world, isn't it counter-productive not to pray for them?

Doesn't Christ want everybody in the world to be saved? But He won't even pray for them.

The obvious answer here is that the world doesn't mean everybody in the world.

Jesus declared exactly who would be saved before He went to the cross.

John 10:14-16
I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

The only people who Jesus died for,
are His sheep.

He came for a specfic people, and He will be victorious in saving them. These are those whom the bible says are elect. Their names have been written in the lambs book of life from the foundation of the world.

So a person can be a staunch atheist at this moment. If they are one of the elect, eventually, God will save them.

Now, this may be hard to comprehend. How can I say that God doesn't want everybody to be saved?

The problem is that it's not me just saying it, but it's the testimony of scripture.

Jesus tells us that the reason He started speaking in parables was so that people wouldn't be saved. Doing this even fufilled prophecy.

Mark 4:10-12
And when He was alone, they that were about Him with the twelve asked of Him the parable.

And He said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables: That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

The parallel passages are found in Matthew 13 and Luke 8.

The question we should ask is that if Jesus really wanted everybody to be saved, why woule He speak in parables and, by His own admission, prevent people from being saved?

If saving everybody is His goal, then speaking in parables is actually going against the will of the Father.

Jesus tells us in no uncertain terms who He has died for (i.e. who will be saved)... His sheep.

John 10:26
But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

Here, we see Jesus saying that only His sheep will believe. Notice, He doesn't say we will be His sheep if we believe.

Only His sheep will be granted saving faith. Remember, God gives us the faith to believe. We don't generate this faith at all. But the eye opener here is that Jesus identifies those who are His sheep before they believe

He also says...

John 6:64-65
"But there are some of you that believe not". For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. And He said, "Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto Me, except it were given unto him of My Father".

If our faith is given to us by God, and obviously we aren't asking for this faith before this point, then it's clearly God who detemines who will be saved and who will not.

Since we can't come to the Father except through Christ, while at the same time we only come to Christ because the Father gives us to Christ before hand, it's painfully obvious that God chooses who He will save and who He will not. We are not told how He chooses, but we

John 6:37-39
All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

Here, we see Jesus telling us that this is exactly what He came to do. To pay the price for all those whom the Father has chosen and given to Him.

God actively chooses who He will save. He doesn't make salvation available and leaves it up to man to ultimately make the decision.

If He did, then Jesus could not be the author and finisher of our faith. Either He would be the author but not the finisher, or the finisher but not the author but not both.

Now, some may ask, is it possible that this could be wrong? What other options are there?

There is no possibility that this could be wrong, and this is specifically due to the options left.

The first option is that we're misunderstanding the verses in the same way people misunderstand the term "world".

The problem with this option is that, unlike the term "world" where there is scripture that specifically identifies and deals with the objects of salvation (i.e. scripture interpreting scripture), there is no other verses that change the meaning of what Jesus says.

He says it more than once, even in parables, and actively doesn't try to save everyone.

He also says it very plainly so no other meaning could be taken from it.

The second possible option is that the bible is wrong in ascribing these words to Jesus. However, this means that the bible isn't the Word of God and can't be trusted.

The third option is simply that Jesus was wrong or lying.

This would obviously make Him not God, and our faith futile.

None of those options are viable.

So, since Jesus is God, and He speaks the truth, and the bible is inerrant, then God is indeed the one who chooses.

A sinner repents because God draws Him and causes Him to repent. God takes out the person's old heart and gives them a new one without the person agreeing to it. He gives the dead person life without them asking for it.

The Father gives us to Christ while we are steeped in sin and are His enemies.

And this is done so that God gets all the glory for the entirety of salvation, from start to finish.

Join us next time as we go through some other ideas that were discussed.